1. NEW TRADE POLICIES COMING TO FORCE SOON: IMPORTANT READ!: READ HERE

circumcision yes, no, maybe?

Discussion in 'Debates' started by Searlefm, Aug 8, 2014.

?

yes or no

  1. yes, aesthetic

    9.5%
  2. yes, health reasons

    19.0%
  3. no, aesthetic

    36.5%
  4. no, health reasons

    46.0%
  5. maybe?

    27.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. flapper72

    flapper72 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    596
    Likes Received:
    430
    I'm not circumcised and I can't say if it's any better, mainly because I don't want to try the other option, I'm happy with what my parents didn't do. Imo it looks better when it isn't but that's really not important. What is important is the reason people are [not] being circumcised.
    If someone has their new born son circumcised because tradition/religion/anything not medically beneficial, that's wrong because that can't really be undone very easily and causes scarring etc.
    If someone let's their son decide when they turn 16-18, and then have a doctor preform the operation, that's fine because it's on the kid at that point.
    If at any point the person needs to be circumcised by a doctor because something is medically wrong, that's fine because doctors hopefully know what they're doing.
    If a circumcision is preformed by a religious official or someone without a PhD in medicine, that's wrong and stupid because safety and all that.

    This is of course just my opinion. But I do think that everyone would agree that the only people qualified to intentionally cut parts of a person off are the person and his doctor. And even then some people aren't qualified to cut themselves up.
     
    aazhie likes this.
  2. Searlefm

    Searlefm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    199
    my only amendment to your statement is i want the doctor to be trained in how to do a
    circumcision and not just have the PHD.
     
    flapper72 likes this.
  3. Caracal

    Caracal Warm-blooded Cat Furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2014
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    218
    I'm surprised the origin of widespread circumcision in the USA hasn't been discussed much in this thread. Rather than retype the whole thing, I'll just copy-paste my response on an old BD thread:

    It may be worth looking into the history of circumcision before making a final decision, as there's a lot of misinformation out there, even among doctors. (Please check up on anything I say, as I'm not an expert, I'm not a guy, and I don't have children.)

    There's a common belief in the USA that circumcision is a long-held practice that has been maintained by Christians since they split from Judaism, and that it provides a lot of medical benefits. My own research into the topic suggests that this isn't true: there was a wide gap in time between that split and when it suddenly became common again, particularly in America. The reason it gained popularity was the errant belief that having a foreskin made men more likely to masturbate, and there was an era around the turn of the century where this PANICKED people. It's the same reason Kellogg invented his famous bland corn flakes (he believed that spicy foods inflamed carnal desires), and part of the reasoning behind the Boy Scouts (exhausting young boys with physical activity was also supposed to help).

    Partial source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masturbation

    This one is far more anecdotal than the first and I can't find the original source, but the last time I read up on this, I found mention that the US military started to require (or at least highly encourage) circumcision, forcing a lot of men to have it done in their late teens/early 20s. So, when these same men had the opportunity to have it done to their children--to get it over with an age when they wouldn't have to remember the ordeal--they were all to happy to give doctors the go-ahead. And so the cycle continued.

    None of this, of course, tells you anything about the medical benefits/drawbacks of the surgery, but it certainly makes the whole proposition looks fishy to me.

    And of course, as a general rule of thumb, ALL cosmetic surgery carries risk. A slip of the wrist, and infection, whatever. The risk is small, and if there are real medical benefits, it could be worth it, but it's worth factoring that in.

    And as usual, I've talked way too much [​IMG] Seriously, don't take anything I say at face value; I really don't want to spread misinformation--I'm just spitting back what my own research turned up. Personally, I really applaud you on looking into this instead of just taking the socially-recommended route [​IMG]

    I'll avoid commenting directly on behalf of my SO (that's his business to reveal personal information), but I will say this: I find it hurtful to suggest that someone must be broken because they are circumcised, or dirty because they are not; unless you've experienced both states, I don't see how you can say for sure that one is infinitely better than the other. There are plenty of healthy, happy guys in both camps.

    That said, if I intended to have children, I would not have them circumcised. I see it as the equivalent of a nose job, tattoo, or other elective surgery: it could have positives, but I don't see enough evidence of such to warrant the risk of something going wrong, certainly not to someone who has no choice. I will admit that I find the sight of an uncircumcised penis strange, and that's sad: no cosmetic surgery should be that common.

    As I write this, a question occurs to me: what if it were possible to perform a procedure on a baby girl that would remove all her body hair? It's purely cosmetic, but I would have TOTALLY loved it if my parents had had it done to me, even without my consent, and it would have been awesome to get it over with at a time when I wouldn't be able to remember. I'll have to chew on that one for awhile. Thoughts? (EDIT: I wasn't trying to suggest that this was equivalent to circumcision, just that it threw my thoughts on infant consent vs. cosmetic improvements for a loop.) EDIT #2: Okay, I didn't have to think about that nearly as long as I thought I would. The answer is still no: it would not have been cool for my parents to risk damaging my skin, and I unfairly constructed the question to pick something that I personally know I would have wanted. I couldn't, say, be sure that my daughters would want the same thing, so it wouldn't be fair for me to enforce it on them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2014
    DameKathryn likes this.
  4. flapper72

    flapper72 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    596
    Likes Received:
    430
    Masturbation = bad.
    Cutting penises = no more masturbation.
    Cutting penises = good.

    Sound logic there...

    Also I didn't know the boy scouts were a psuedo-solution. I am an Eagle Scout and I can say (from my experiences at least) that everyone in Boy Scouts nowadays masturbates. So that certainly worked well.
     
    MurphyAlter and Caracal like this.
  5. Erethizon-dorsatum

    Erethizon-dorsatum Eats all the lichen.

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2014
    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    96
    Anyone who tells you that you should be upset about being circumcised is just ignorant. There is no point being angry about something you can't change.

    A far better attitude would be to say something like: you should make an informed choice if you ever have male children. There is no point trying to change the past. It is possible to shift future attitudes though.
     
    MurphyAlter and flapper72 like this.
  6. MurphyAlter

    MurphyAlter The Floofiest

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    4,145
    Likes Received:
    2,849
    Yeah, I'm in the same boat. I'm circumcised. If I had the choice, I'd choose to not do it, but it doesn't really bother me that I did. I know I won't be doing it to my children, and I guess that's really all you can do about it.
     
  7. Chelseapolitan

    Chelseapolitan Don't dream it, be it!

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2014
    Messages:
    754
    Likes Received:
    867
    As a woman, I think foreskin is sexy. But it doesn't make me think any differently about a man.

    As a human, I think foreskin needs to stay intact. It's natural and healthy. There are some circumstancs where it needs to be removed and that's okay. Sometimes people need organs removed. Or limbs. Sometimes it just needs to be done for health reasons.

    My roomie/kinda boyfriend/ex fiance (lol) has a very hard time with his foreskin..... Being big on health, especially when it comes to genitalia/sex wise, I have encouraged him to do to the doctor for YEARS. His foreskin is very tight. It bothers him to pull it over his head at all. When it goes beyond his head, it hurts him and it's difficult to get it back over. It is so red, plump, and sensitive....
    The reason I say this: Can anyone tell me how to get him to get it looked at? I think it is because he is uncomfortable being naked in front of random people and he may be embarrassed.
     
  8. uk2008

    uk2008 Guest

    Sounds like what I had.. (except mine wouldn't even go back over 1/4 of my head.... It sounds like he needs to see a doctor but they will need to look at it unfortunately otherwise they can't asses it. And they won't do anything without an assessment
     
  9. Chelseapolitan

    Chelseapolitan Don't dream it, be it!

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2014
    Messages:
    754
    Likes Received:
    867
    I understand that.... But he thinks it's "okay". Maybe I will bring a doctor to him. xD

    Or, I just thought, if he took pictures prior to the appointment and sent it to the doctor. He might be more comfortable doing that. I will have to ask if he will.
     
    DameKathryn and MurphyAlter like this.
  10. Willowcat

    Willowcat Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2014
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    26
    he should use antibiotic ointment on his forskin and head. It will help prevent infection and provide lubrication for the forskin to slide over the head. That is what my doctor told me about my for skin.
     
  11. scalie

    scalie back pokin' snake

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2014
    Messages:
    2,432
    Likes Received:
    1,685
    personally if given the choice I wouldn't have gotten circumcised, just a stupid old tradition born out of trying to "keep those damn adolescents from touching themselves and making *insert religious figure here* cry"

    as far as cleanliness goes in the modern age, simple answer, soap and water. if you have the physical ability to wash your own ass crack you can easily wash inside your foreskin. and the issue of it being too tight, why not just have a doctor make a relief cut so it isn't so tight? smaller incision = less pain and less chance of infection

    EDIT: as for an argument I see regularly of "but scientists have done studies that find you're less likely to get HIV if circumcised" yes, technically that's true, but it's usually not much of a lower rate of infection. if a study said cutting off your left leg would make you less likely to get a disease simply by the fact you'd be less likely to walk anywhere you could end up in a situation where you may be exposed would that be sound reasoning to do it?
     
  12. MurphyAlter

    MurphyAlter The Floofiest

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    4,145
    Likes Received:
    2,849
    That argument always made me laugh. If you want to avoid contacting HIV through your penis, don't have sex with people who have it. You're basically saying "He's gonna fuck an AIDS victim one of these days, and this is the best way to protect my little boy."
     
  13. Searlefm

    Searlefm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    199
    i know the study you mean and i hate to be the one to have to crap on it hear but its a load of woo.
    they have bad methodology and only prove that if you get circumcised you are less likely to get HIV/Aids in the next 2 years a reasonable chunk of witch sex is unpleasant for.
    and there have been a large number of study's done that say any difference is less than the expected noise in the date points so ether no difference or a truly minute one
     
  14. DameKathryn

    DameKathryn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    814
    Likes Received:
    396
    Well to be fair, you just need to be careful to use safe sex practices and be responsible. It makes me sad that people tend to teach that you should never have sex with someone who has HIV or AIDS or any other STI, when we should be teaching that we need to openly communicate and practice safe sex. I think most people think of safe sex as a way to avoid pregnancy rather than transmission of infections.
     
    Caracal likes this.
  15. MurphyAlter

    MurphyAlter The Floofiest

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    4,145
    Likes Received:
    2,849
    I'm sorry, but you couldn't get me to TOUCH someone with an STD, even a treatable/curable one. Nuh-uh, not happening, I will boil my own damn hand before I let that happen.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2014
  16. Reptile

    Reptile Semi-Professional Butthole Spelunker

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2014
    Messages:
    2,360
    Likes Received:
    2,017
    Was that double negative intentional?
     
  17. MurphyAlter

    MurphyAlter The Floofiest

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    4,145
    Likes Received:
    2,849
    Nope, just me having a stroke due to unpleasant thoughts.
     
  18. Caracal

    Caracal Warm-blooded Cat Furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2014
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    218
    Mm...that seems like one of those things where perspective changes drastically depending on the person involved (at least for me). I wouldn't want to be in close contact with a person with a non-sexually transmitted serious illness, but you'd better believe I'd be serving my SO soup or sitting in his hospital room. By the same token, having sex with someone with an STD regardless of how low the risk is seems dumb...until it's your beloved partner. Then I'd start taking a much closer look at what the odds really are.

    I was pretty damned shocked when I found out how difficult it is to transmit HIV female-to-male. I read...was it an AMA? don't remember...an account by a woman with HIV, who got married and is sexually active with her (fully informed) partner. They have to take a lot of precautions, but I was floored: it wasn't an unreasonable way to live. Sure doesn't agree with what the media would have you believe.
     
    DameKathryn likes this.
  19. MurphyAlter

    MurphyAlter The Floofiest

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    4,145
    Likes Received:
    2,849
    Even so, that's not a risk I'm even willing to put a one-in-a-million bet on.
     
  20. Searlefm

    Searlefm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    199
    i dont think anyone can blame you for wanting to be safe
     
    Caracal and MurphyAlter like this.

Share This Page