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Gun Control

Discussion in 'Debates' started by MurphyAlter, Jun 26, 2015.

  1. MurphyAlter

    MurphyAlter The Floofiest

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    You knew it was coming :D
     
  2. Velixer

    Velixer The Musical Draconic Muse

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    This will be my only comment.
    I respect those who own guns as either a hobby or hunting or whatever. I'm just saying that due to the conditioning that the news media has done to the US, I personally believe that trying to apply gun control laws for our nation simply won't work.

    End of Rant/Argument
     
  3. Jazzi the Pegasus

    Jazzi the Pegasus Something Original

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    I dont have a gun. I have a knife though.
     
  4. zeta

    zeta Active Member

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    Proper gun control is useing two hands
     
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  5. Willow

    Willow Slut and proud!

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    I don't own guns, but live in a house with someone who does.
    I'm not a gun user but I have no problems with responsible people owning guns. Gun control laws won't work.

    What? Do they think it'll stop a criminal from obtaining a gun? Oops, there's a law about it, I'm sure that'll stop them. No, they'll still get them, there are always ways around laws. Laws really don't change it.

    I mean, there are some laws about it that are just common sense.
     
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  6. Robert Thompson

    Robert Thompson Reaper of Fallen Toys, Porn King

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    There is no need for military hardware to be on the open market, but guns are not as dangerous as those that use them will malicious intent
     
  7. zeta

    zeta Active Member

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    Half if not more of what i have is considered mil hardware, i see no problem with it
     
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  8. bronson_twist

    bronson_twist Silicon connoisseur!

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  9. Exeter

    Exeter Cuddly, Snuggly, Slutty Dragon

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    The question to ask is, was Australia gun crazy before that happened? Because right now there is no safe and non-confrontational way to take guns from the hundreds of thousands of Americans who consider them a right. No argument about ending mass shootings will reach the masses at this time. The NRA and the weapons lobby along with the weapons manufacturers that fund them both have infiltrated American culture to create an obsession that's not healthy for anybody, including the responsible enthusiasts. Obama has expanded many weapons rights and people are still convinced his government wants to take their guns.

    I think the only way we'll see a dramatic shift in the obsession with guns is a change in the zeitgeist which I think is inevitable at this point. Young people growing up today are going to have a very different outlook on gun culture and I think it will have dramatic consequences on the future gun culture of Americans. You can't just watch school district after school district suffer a mass shooting for decade after decade and grow up entirely positive about guns.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2015
  10. bronson_twist

    bronson_twist Silicon connoisseur!

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    We were nowhere near as gun crazy as America at that time. But it was still 640,000 guns that got handed in/seized. That's still a lot of firearms. But I agree that there's a lot of Americans who will refuse any kind of similar strategy.
     
  11. zeta

    zeta Active Member

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    I would hope we would fight any kind of confiscation, its not really a gun problem so much as a people problem with mass killings people will always find away. And guns are and in efficient way of soing that.... im just glad the people that commit the crimes are not smarter
     
  12. Exeter

    Exeter Cuddly, Snuggly, Slutty Dragon

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    Yeah but it's a LOT harder to regulate people and control them, pick out anyone with any kind of murderous intent, stop people from developing a mental disorder, and prevent the crime before it starts, than it is to take dangerous weapons out of public hands where they don't actually NEED to be. There is no reason an assault rifle or SMG needs to be available to anyone but a soldier. The fun of hobbyists isn't really worth empowering people who intend to do harm to do more harm, faster, in my opinion.
     
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  13. zeta

    zeta Active Member

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    But the problem with that is mis information so called assault rifles and smg are NOT avalible to the general public a class 3(full auto selectfire) is upwards of 15000 dollars and crap tons of paperwork to getn and with how stupid easy guns are to make more re gi lations are not the answer. Hell look at chicago its flat illigal to buy or carry a handgun and criminals that shoot people still buy illigal guns and shoot people,
     
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  14. Exeter

    Exeter Cuddly, Snuggly, Slutty Dragon

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    And so your solution to that is what? Less Regulation?
     
  15. zeta

    zeta Active Member

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    Some of the regulations we have are just dumb, most are obviously to make money. I dont know what a good solution would be ither than better focus on law enforcement. Alot of people that resort to shooting people are repeat violent offenders. I dont belive that more regulations that punish the 99 percent of law abiding gun owners is the solution. You shouldnt resort to takeing peoles rights and freedoms for an ilkusion of saftey
     
  16. MurphyAlter

    MurphyAlter The Floofiest

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    Taking away guns won't necessarily keep them out of the hands of crazy people intent on killing people. And if they can't get a gun, they might make a bomb instead.

    What it WOULD do, is lower the crime rate, and the rate of gun related deaths. LOTS of gun murders are crimes of opportunity, and same with suicides involving guns. You take it away from being a one-button kill, and you lower the rate at which it happens. It's also infinitely easier to hurt yourself with a gun than with anything else.

    And another issue, if someone said "99% of bomb owners are responsible with them" would that make you okay with the 1% who aren't?

    Now, do I believe that getting rid of all guns would be the BEST decision? No. Do I think leaving it as-is would be the best? Not really. Do I think that the best way to handle this is going to be remotely feasible? No. There's no perfectly right decision here. It's a rock-paper-scissors where you're really not going to make everybody happy with whatever policy you follow. You'll piss off either the pro-gun, the pro-safety, or the pro-we-can't-afford-to-fix-the-issue-properly people.
     
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  17. bronson_twist

    bronson_twist Silicon connoisseur!

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    For me it's not about taking away all guns, it's the type. I can't see why anybody (outside of military/police) would need a semi/full auto rifle. If you take away the high rate of fire/high capacity firearms then the level of damage someone can inflict in a mass shooting scenario is hugely diminished. The extra seconds taken to reload, manipulate the bolt etc gives the victims/police etc opportunity to act. Even if it's just to flee.

    Those types of reforms probably won't have a huge effect on firearms related crimes like armed robberies. However if would have a huge effect on mass casualty shootings ie Columbine etc. By taking away the large capacity/rate of fire firearms you take away the opportunity for these people who want to hurt as many people as possible. It has been shown to work, there has been ZERO mass casualty shootings in Australia in the 17 years since the gun reforms were brought in.

    But in America I doubt anything will change. The gun lobby is too powerful and a large portion of the population has a single minded view that it's their right to have any gun they'd like. Because everyone needs an AK-47 for "self protection"....

    /end rant
     
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  18. Keely

    Keely The Happy Helpful Husky

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    I'm just going to point out a fallacy that I've seen on here; the "laws won't stop criminals from finding a weapon" one. And the simple answer is yes they will. No a law will not stop 100% of illegal possession, but it will reduce it. This is the same thing that people say about suicide "if you stop them one way, they'll just find another" and it's simply not true. Overwhelmingly people do not attempt suicide again if they're stopped in a previous attempt and especially if they get help afterwards. It's the same thing with guns, if the easy way isn't available it's simply too much effort and people won't do it. Better gun control laws will make banned firearms incredibly more expensive and riskier to get your hands on. Which means that fewer potential shooters and gang members will have access to them instead of being able to get them from their mom's closet ala Adam Lanza.

    I'm in favor of what I like to call "common sense" gun control laws. My idea is to require gun use licensing. To get a license you have to have a certain number of hours on a gun range handling the type of gun you're getting a license for (handgun, rifle, etc.) have to prove knowledge of safe handling and storage procedures, and knowledge of local and federal gun regulations; just like we do for getting a driving license. Included in licensing would be a background check and to buy a gun you MUST show license that allows you to purchase it no matter where you're buying it. And you have to re-license every, say 5-10 years just like a drivers license, or if you are convicted of a charge that would affect your license (like charged with criminal negligence for how your guns were stored or handled). I also support better legislation in regards to banned items like high cap mags or incendiary rounds. I also heavily support the de-militarization of police because I see NO reason why ANYONE other than a military member needs to have access to ridiculous things like rocket launchers.
     
  19. Wolfcat

    Wolfcat Well-Known Member

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    For what it's worth, and since it relates to what Keely said:

    I've been suicidal before, but I would probably not be able to off myself without a gun. There would be less suicides without guns.
     
  20. scalie

    scalie back pokin' snake

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    I don't agree with that statement since people tend to get creative when they're truly desperate to do it. a friend's aunt was institutionalized after trying to hang herself and somehow managed to get a hold of a bottle of drain cleaner while under close observation. needless to say she died

    personally I don't think there is a way to do away with guns, if you try there's going to be massive pushback, and even if you succeed it just opens up a much higher value black market and organized crime, same as prohibition did in the 1920s. I think there does need to be an overhaul to the background check system and waiting periods, also some control and registry of secondhand sales so you can't buy and then offload a bunch of hardware in the parking lot of a gun show with no way to trace who ends up with it. if we really want to focus on mass shootings there is a high correlation between violent crimes and mental illness so I think instead of the oversimplified solution of "ban the guns, they won't be able to find one, right?!" maybe ty to keep them out of the hands of those who are most likely to misuse them. I do think that a lot of ultra pro-gun people need to tone it down a bit, if someone's immediate response to any stressful situation is "I'MA PULL OUT MY GUN!" I don't think they should have one. there is also the potential that if more people start carrying guns, open or concealed, law enforcement likely would escalate how they deal with any situation because there would be no way to tell in many situations whether someone is carrying or not. it's definitely an issue with no clear cut single answer
     

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